Photo by Jaxon Buzzell for ALC Records
In 1986, Bo Jackson was selected No. 1 in the NFL Draft by the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. That same year, he was also a fourth round draft pick in the MLB Draft by the Kansas City Royals. After warning the Bucs that he wouldn’t play in Tampa, he made good on the promise, tearing up the MLB with the Royals before eventually joining the Raiders in the NFL (Al Davis was the only owner vocally open to the idea of Jackson playing both. The moral of the story is that when someone can do everything, you let them cook―specialization theory be damned. With Bo Jackson, the new project from Boldy James and the Alchemist, Al teed one up for Boldy, who broke one off for 80 yards and knocked one out of the park at the same damn time.
Pardon the extended sports metaphor, but that’s simply how Boldy James talks. Working with the Alchemist is like bodying half court shots like they’re layups. They work together like Stockton and Malone. As Al explains it, the two approached the recording sessions like they were preparing for battle—energy drinks on tap, 40 pound barbells strewn about the studio in case anyone needed a quick pump between verses.
When listening to Bo Jackson, it’s clear that Boldy is in the middle of a Hall of Fame-solidifying run. With his 2020 releases (including another Alchemist-produced project, The Price of Tea in China) the Detroit-bred MC asserted himself as a leading voice in street rap, a disenchanted former hustler bringing Midwest grit to the East Coast tradition. With Bo Jackson, atop perfect beats from the Alchemist, Boldy stretches his sea legs after hopping off the PJ at LAX. There’s a West Coast cool that permeates Bo Jackson, and Boldy approaches the project with the healthy skepticism of a grinder who’s seen things too good to be true blow up in his face.
But at its core, Bo Jackson is a victory lap. “I can honestly say things are not only looking up, but life is damn near everything I ever wanted it to be at this point,” Boldy explains from his car, slugging across LA traffic. So almost everything is perfect. But Boldy and Al connect so intimately on their collaborations because this isn’t just two guys figuring shit out in the studio. There’s a familial bond that runs deeper than music, which keeps both artists at the top of their respective games. When Boldy’s in LA, his kids practically live with Al. The bonds are unbreakable, which is how a near-telepathic relationship unfurls itself into an album as pitch-perfect as Bo Jackson. If you’re waiting for a strikeout, a bricked corner three at the end of regulation, you may be sitting in front of your TV seething for years to come.
We caught up with Boldy James and the Alchemist shortly after Bo Jackson dropped. The interview, lightly edited for clarity, is below.
The album is out. Does that feeling ever get old?
The Alchemist: It’s comparable to anything great when you were a child, like one of those special days when you were going to an amusement park or doing something crazy. Additionally, I’ve been feeling very competitive lately. I like what I hear with all my contemporaries, so I was wanting to get on the court. The gym doesn’t close. While we’re sleeping, somebody’s in the gym shooting. So I was just like, if I could take Boldy and we go two on two and go out and hit the court, we can compete with anybody, anywhere.
Boldy James: I’m just happy to be back on the court with my bro. I was on injured reserve, redshirted for a minute, and I just had to let the league know that I wanted my starting point guard position back. So I’m out there running the one and two with my brother, rolling a mean pick and roll right now. We got a mean pick and roll, a screen play stop and pop, John Stockton and Karl Malone going on right now. We got a Mike and Scottie bag going on, so I’m just happy that we’re back in the playoffs. We’re competing to bring the chip home.
You said you were redshirted, but you also put out four amazing records last year. Do you feel like people thought that you were taking a break or something? You’ve been very productive.
Boldy: Three of the years, I wasn’t focused while I was doing the Mass Appeal situation. And then I had a five-year legal setback, so it just feels good to be back working. Me and Al, we’re putting out good records. The fans told us we haven’t missed yet, so we’re going to continue to pound the rock in the paint. We’re going to keep trying to give the fans buckets.
Did you guys just hop back in the studio to fuck around after The Price of Tea in China? Or did you explicitly decide to make another full-length project together?
Boldy: Bro is very strategic, so we never stopped working. Even after we put out Boldface, we were still working. We had records left over from that. Even after Price of Tea, we were still working. After this Bo Jackson project, we just keep pounding. Like I say, we keep cracking at it, keep chipping away at it.
Alchemist: I love Price of Tea and the Boldface EP, but I definitely felt like we didn’t finish our full meal. Like, “All right, this is good, but I know we could go even further,” especially when you got somebody like Boldy. I felt that way with Freddie, too, when we did that project. Like, “All right, this is good but I know we can even go even crazier.” So it’s almost like the pool hall hustle. We reel them in. “You like that? All right, we got something more in store.”
Boldy, Al just said he’s getting real competitive these days. So did you feel a different atmosphere in the studio when you were recording this time around? A little more of an edge from Al to bring your A game?
Boldy: Nah. When I’m working with bro, there’s no pressure. I can hit that same half-court jumper all day when I’m working with bro. He brings the best out of me, so competitive is an understatement when I’m not working with bro. I feel more than competitive when I’m not working with bro. I might do a lot of things, trying to take it to new heights and exploring new shit lyrically. But when I’m working with bro, I feel like can’t nobody fuck with us. In this current era in music, I think me and bro, we’ve been kicking ass.
Alchemist: Yeah. I switched up the liquids on this project. I came much more energy drink based. I was drinking a lot of energy drinks and I was real high-octane. There was a lot of octane in the studio. I set up a pull-up bar. We were watching old tapes. It was real competitive.
It was like hitting the gym.
Alchemist: Octane. That was a word that kept coming to me. Octane.
Boldy: 40-pound dumbbells laying around every time. Yeah. It was real.
Alchemist: Sometimes I get too aggressive and I got to chill out. It’s like, yo, it’s just music.
Do you guys work quickly together? Or is it a slower pace?
Boldy: It’s automatic. It’s a no-look pass. I just knew that the lob was coming, bro. I knew the alley-oop was coming, and I just got to be there for the flush, bro. It’s not rocket science for me and Al. It’s a piece of cake.
Alchemist: Boldy likes to write in vehicles, which I noticed during this album. Not even a moving vehicle, he’s just parked up with the lights on, and he gets his mind right. A lot of stuff on the spot—he’s just obviously a killer—but some stuff, he had to drag it to the whip. Like, “Let me go get my mind right. Leave me the hell alone. Stop bugging me.”
Boldy: Yeah. “Let me see the keys. Let me see the keys to the new Lambo. Let me go bust a few corners in the Lambo truck and I’m going to go park on Marina Del Rey and roll me up a fat one. I’mma just let the beach write my lyrics for me.”
Al, are you just making beats in the studio and think, “Oh, shit, this is a good one for Boldy”? Or is it really once he gets in the room with you that you’re able to create?
Alchemist: Since we did the last album, I pretty much make these all the time. I’ll start stashing joints. As I’m making beats throughout the day, sometimes I might find one and go, “Yeah, yeah, I got to play this for Boldy before I let anyone else hear it.” Or sometimes I’ll just save a beat, just because I know we’re going to get back up. So then when we get back up, I usually have a stash of a couple things first. Like, “Yo, I’ve been waiting three months to play you this one.” While he’s around, I’m always using the energy of that to make beats, too. Because he’s coming over and he’s telling me crazy stories. I’m hearing about first-hand stuff that is just insane. There’s a lot of stuff being given to me that I could use when I make the beats, too, because it just inspires me to make a certain type of beat. Plus, yeah, when we get together, we start really clicking, and then I can make stuff on the spot for him and it goes from there.
Boldy, what is it about Al’s beats that brings out the best in you?
Boldy: His beats were indirectly raising and birthing something out of me before I even met him. So when I met him, to be able to work with him personally, I just wanted to take advantage of the opportunity. A lot of people take Al and what he’s done musically for granted, but I actually know how great he is. So in my world, being from Detroit, being a young ghetto, east side n***a, n****s would kill for that opportunity, and I just always wanted to capitalize on it. I have built a brotherhood with Al, so it’s a two-for-one with me. It’s not always just about music.
I go to bro crib, kick it, my kids damn near live with him when they’re in town, and we just got a real family type of deal. It’s like mafia with us. It’s like the best of both worlds with me. I get great beats, I get to work in a great environment, I get to work with a legendary producer, and I get to kick it with my brother all I want. I can honestly say things is not only looking up, but life is damn near everything I ever wanted it to be at this point.
That must be just the best feeling in the world. Al, what is it about Boldy’s voice in particular that has you creating a different kind of beat than you do for anybody else?
Alchemist: It’s just as a texture. Not to get too nerdy here, but his voice, even when he talks, you could put it on a beat. It’s like water to me when he rhymes. It’s always coincidental that he’s rhyming, if that makes sense. Like, “Oh, shit,” because he’s talking so crazy, but then the words are connecting in crazy ways. It’s easy working with Bold, because I can imagine what he’ll potentially sound like on a beat. But then obviously when we get up, he always goes left and blows my mind and does some new shit.
His voice is a texture and how he sounds on a record is so interesting that your ears perk up the minute you hear it, and then the flow is so effortless it’s almost unfair. I rapped as a kid before I made beats, so I know how fucking hard it is to do what he does. It’s like Prodigy in the same way that it seems so simple, but I dare you to do the same thing. So that type of thing will always get me, and make it easy for me to make beats.
Boldy, what’s your reaction hearing Al compare you to one of the best rappers in the history of the game?
Boldy: It’s a great feeling. Like I say, I grew up listening to a lot of guys that I get features from, or a lot of guys that I’ve been in partnerships with, or that I’m fans of, and they’re fans of me now. All this hard work is paying off because I just love the craft of making music in general. Like I always tell people, I was rapping when it wasn’t cool to rap. Even when there wasn’t no money in it, I just love the art of music.
What’s your relationship like with the Griselda guys these days? Are you still pretty actively collaborating with them?
Boldy: Yeah, I just hopped on a joint with Westside Gunn and Stove God Cooks for his project. And then you see me and Benny, we just burnt up a record. We just burnt up “Brickmile to Montana.” And I got a pretty good relationship with Conway. I’m locked in with the guys, but I met the guys through Al, so he has a lot to do with the decisions that I make musically, even within the respects of working with the guys.
Al, you got the Boldy projects, you got the Freddie projects… Who is one rapper you haven’t worked with yet that you’re itching to get in the studio with?
Alchemist: Man. I think that’s a fixed question because I’mma shoot for the stars, but I would probably say Jay-Z. Let’s hook it up. Shout to Jay.
Yeah, you never know who’s reading Complex.
Alchemist: Shout to Hova. Shout to Roc Nation. Shout to all of them. That would be fun. I can cook up some mean shit for Jay.
Boldy, where do you see yourself fitting in the rap game right now?
Boldy: I don’t see myself fitting in. That’s the beauty of it. I do something that a lot of guys haven’t challenged themselves to do. I’m just in my bag, man. I’m just trying to be as original as I can be, as standout as I can be, and just as Boldy James as I can be. That’s been working for me.
I’m not having as much of an identity crisis as a lot of the artists out here who are just trying to appease a whole lot of people whose opinions don’t matter. I work with a lot of greats and legends, so the respect I get from those guys—the game and the pointers and tips I get from those guys—is helping me advance in life. So I’ve just been doing me and just working and a lot of people can learn a lot from guys like me and Al, because fitting in isn’t the thing to do. Everybody’s doing this and that, so we’re going to go left. That’s just always been how me and Al function.
Al, I feel like part of the reason you and Boldy work so well together is because you operate the same way. These days, with a lot of commercial stuff, you get like six different producers on a track. But when you’re working, it’s often just you and one rapper. Or it’s a project with a few rappers, but you generally like to keep things pretty tight. Do you see a connection to the way Boldy approaches things?
Alchemist: Yeah. I think we both do our business as individuals. I’ll be damned if I ever saw anybody give Boldy James a line, and I certainly program my own snares. But I don’t see anything wrong with that—people who collaborate, and when you see a track that’s got eight producers. I’ve done it. I’ve done records where I’ve collaborated with people. I think it’s dope, and to be honest, whenever I do that, I get a different result. I collaborated with Fredwreck last year and we made the record for Anderson .Paak with Smokey Robinson. It ended up being a totally different record than I ever would have made.
I do think there’s a value to collaborating, but I know that what I do on my own is special. And I do think that I protect it, in a way, the same way that I’m sure Boldy does as a rapper. Where it’s like, I do want to be known as the guy that does what I do. Like, when I see Premier’s name or Pete Rock or something, you know they did that. Not saying that there’s anything wrong with getting help, but I do want to be that person who can have something that’s signified and unique like that—that represents you. We both approach creating in the same way, for sure.
Boldy, I was just thinking about you sitting in your car writing rhymes. I’m wondering about being in Detroit versus somewhere like LA to make a record. Do you feel like being in a different place affects the way that you write?
Boldy: In Detroit or LA, I’m in the car either way. [Laughs.] But, yeah, it does. When I write rhymes in Detroit—because I was in drugs in Detroit—and when I write rhymes in Detroit, it’s like I’m looking from the inside out. But when I’m in LA, I can see everything from the outside looking in, and it gives me a different perspective, a different outlook to write from. Different climate, different temperature check.
Boldy, I’m going to hold you to that bar on “Speed Trap” about dropping a new EP every three months…
Boldy: We damn near can do that already!
Alchemist: I can say this, we’re definitely not going to wait three months, because we already have a bonus for the deluxe version of the vinyl that’s coming, which is like four more songs. We’re always cooking up.