Jaal says his latest EP, As It Stands, isn’t about big concepts — it’s about showing off his pen. That comes through across the seven tracks, where his rapping feels sharper and more clever than ever. The clearest example is “Uzi (Dialed In),” where he calls back to jazz legend John Coltrane while reflecting on his own journey. His storytelling also hits harder. On “Trust Issues,” over a jazz-laced beat, he details being mistakenly rushed by police at a train station, despite looking nothing like the suspects. And on the closer, “Merci,” the beat flips midway, setting up a dreamy soliloquy that threads his past, present, and future.
The Melbourne rapper says he was simply having fun on As It Stands. Compared to You Only Die Once (YODO)—the 14-track project he dropped in late 2023—making this one felt lighter, more focused, and less intense. Jaal has steadily released projects since 2016 (nine in total), but YODO marked a true turning point in his career as his longest and most polished release. Reflecting on that EP, he says: “I went into that project knowing what I wanted to communicate: life is short, make the most of it — it’s an imperfect journey, but those imperfections are all part of the journey.”
In some ways, As It Stands and YODO feel like opposites in conversation. On the latter, Jaal says he was more focused on “speaking from the heart,” while on the former the tone leans more braggadocious. YODO’s credits include a wide cast of producers, mastering and mixing engineers, and featured artists; As It Stands is significantly leaner. If YODO was a cohesive, conceptual project, As It Stands is more scattered in theme, with a looser conceptual thread. In Jaal’s words, the EP is about “the duality of things: staying the same, being in the same place and with the same circle, but still evolving so much as a human.”
That theme is interlaced in the making of the record itself: As It Stands was kept, for the most part, close to home. The EP was co-produced by Jaal’s longtime friend and collaborator OGK, while C000kie, another close collaborator, lends vocals to “Stay In Your Bag.” The cover art and trailer were shot in Melbourne’s southeast—where Jaal grew up—at Dandenong Plaza with his people. Part of the photoshoot for this story was also shot at Yarraman Station, a spot he picked for its significance as a place where he and his friends used to meet up. His longtime friends and stylists, Lahiru and Miyuru Fernando of TwoFold, handled his styling for the shoot. From production to rollout, it’s all stayed local. The only real exceptions are the two features on the EP: Austin-based rapper Mike Melinoe and London’s Lord Apex.
To celebrate and reflect on the release of his latest project, Jaal sat down with Complex Australia to talk about the making of As It Stands, how a night in Japan led to a Lord Apex collab, sharpening his pen, and why he’s chosen to remain independent.
How’s it going? How are you feeling about your latest project being out in the world? Tell me about As It Stands.
I’m feeling elated. I feel like my projects are always a snapshot of where I’m at mentally, physically, and spiritually — I like to look at my music as time capsules — so I feel like this is just another one of those. My last project was heavily conceptual, but this is very different. There’s a really loose concept around this project: it’s kind of about the duality of things — staying the same, being in the same place and with the same circle, but still evolving so much as a human.
With that being said, going into this one I just wanted to have a lot of fun and not be limited to a specific theme or concept. It’s really just me having fun and getting loose with a bunch of different sounds, you know? I’m blessed to still be surrounded by good people and to still do what I do.
On the relationships tip, your longtime friend and collaborator OGK exclusively did the production on this project, what was behind that decision?
Yeah, this project was completely just me and him. I’ve always had a vision of just locking in with him and making something together and seeing how it comes out. We just gravitate towards each other. Even sonically, we just like a lot of the same shit, so I was like, you know what, for this next one, I’m gonna tick something off the music bucket list. I think what we came up with speaks to, one, our brotherhood, but then also our synchronicity sonically—the way we’re connected and inspire each other.
Can you tell me more about being in your production bag for this project?
I’ve always had a hand in the production side of things, but in terms of actually making the beats, I’ve just picked it up along the way, and that’s thanks to OGK and working closely with him. I kind of studied how he did things, and he gave me a couple of pointers, and I just picked it up kinda naturally. On this project there are seven songs — he and I made the beat together on five of them, and two were fully produced by OGK. It’s just been hella fun.
Lord Apex is featured on “Bet That.” Tell me the story of how that came about?
It’s a crazy story. I met him in Japan in 2023 — it was super random, I met him at a gig. I recognised him. It was hella random; he was just dancing to the music and stuff. Anyway, the next day, I went to his show, and when I was walking out he was at the front pointing at me — he remembered me from the night before. So yeah, we just chopped it up, and I was super lit. I was like, ‘Let me spit some shit to you,’ and he was like, ‘Alright, go then.’ I was like, ‘Oh, what, right here?’ and he said, ‘Yeah, you said it.’ So I just started spitting to him. I still have the video — it’s pretty funny, I kinda fucked up.
Anyway, that was that, and I told him if he ever came to Melbourne, I’d show him around. He came here to tour at the end of last year, and we chopped it up again. Fast forward to this year, we made ‘Bet That.’ I wanted a second verse on the beat, and I just heard him on it in my head, so I thought I’d shoot my shot. And yeah, he got back to me, and we just made it happen.
You released You Only Die Once last year, which was a highly conceptual project. At your listening party, you described As It Stands as “less conceptual” and more just a project you were having fun with.
I’m curious to hear how you feel your music has evolved between the two projects, especially with As It Stands being more spontaneous in its creation.
With As It Stands, I honestly just really wanted to flex my pen on this one and make sure people don’t forget that’s the cloth I’m cut from. That’s where my roots are — in my penmanship and my lyrical ability.
I’m always concerned with lyricism, but You Only Die Once was so concept-heavy. That doesn’t mean I wasn’t focused on lyricism, but it wasn’t the primary driver like it is on this project. On You Only Die Once, it was really coming from the heart — I was speaking more from my emotions and letting them do the talking. Whereas on As It Stands, I just really wanted to dive back into lyricism and not have such dense storytelling. So yeah, between the two projects, I think my pen has definitely gotten sharper.
How did you go about sharpening your pen?
It was a lot of sitting down and reviewing my lines, thinking about how I could make them more intricate. You definitely need to set the intention and be like, ‘I’m going to take a little bit more time with this.’ Previously, when I was in the studio, I just wanted to get ideas out quick, then come back later and fix them up.
I think ‘Trust Issues’ is a good example of how my songwriting has grown because I’m telling a story from start to finish. Me and two friends got arrested in Dandenong for no reason — mistaken identities. We looked nothing like the people they were after. Wrong place, wrong time. It was a traumatic experience. We got rushed — three cars and seven officers. I tell that story vividly on ‘Trust Issues.’
Can you talk a bit about your decision to remain independent? You’ve been making music for close to 10 years now and would’ve had opportunities to sign.
I think for me it’s just about being my own boss — not having to answer to anyone. Being able to do shows when I want, release music when I want, and having 100% creative freedom. In the long run, I think it’ll pay off.
We’re living in a day and age where you don’t actually need a label. That’s empowering, and people should lean into that. The biggest thing a label gives you is resources and finances, and obviously it’s harder for an independent artist. But who’s to say you can’t go to the bank, take out a loan, and invest in marketing or your next album?
Being independent definitely takes more time, energy, and money. But if things work out, you’ll have the last laugh.
What do you hope the future holds?
I just want to keep cementing everything I’ve built — and I really hope for it to blossom even more. I want the vision I have for myself to fully come to life. I see my music reaching all corners of the globe.
Is there anything that I've kind of missed that you want me to know, people to know? Just anything else you really want to say?
Love yourself, love your journey. Embrace who you are. I think artists here are starting to embrace their identity, and we definitely need to do more of that if we want to be recognised globally. I’ll leave it on this note: as humans, we have an unfathomable amount of potential. If you’re reading this, know that anything you envision, you can manifest. So keep going. Keep cooking.